survivor multi-pick and 2nd place bracket.

 I'm trying to convert from a manually-hosted game to this site for hosting, here's a couple of nuances of my game, let me know if this site hosting can accomodate them:

1.  2nd place is a separate pool - players after their first loss are dumped to a separate pool, and are eligible for 1/3 of the purse.  After 2nd loss they are out of the game.  So effectively I have 2 games, one game to the first loss and one game to the second loss.

2.  multi-pick after week X - I start off with 1 pick per week but often increase to 2 picks around week 10 when it looks like the game won't end during the regular season. 

Christopher Krolak wrote:

 I'm trying to convert from a manually-hosted game to this site for hosting, here's a couple of nuances of my game, let me know if this site hosting can accomodate them:

1.  2nd place is a separate pool - players after their first loss are dumped to a separate pool, and are eligible for 1/3 of the purse.  After 2nd loss they are out of the game.  So effectively I have 2 games, one game to the first loss and one game to the second loss.

2.  multi-pick after week X - I start off with 1 pick per week but often increase to 2 picks around week 10 when it looks like the game won't end during the regular season. 

In short no. However, both items are not super difficult to imagine how I would add. So the all important question is (since this is an ad-driven site), how big is your league? 

Fred 

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

it's a growing league, here's my roster the last 4 years. 

2011 = 84

2012 = 90

2013 = 93

2014 = 98 

Christopher Krolak wrote:

it's a growing league, here's my roster the last 4 years. 

2011 = 84

2012 = 90

2013 = 93

2014 = 98 

OK, thanks for the info. On the 2nd item, are you saying that you make them have to get two picks right to survive?

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

Fred,

Let me know your thoughts on if these 2 features can be implemented before week 1.  The multi-pick capability is not needed before week 1, but I would need to know that it was going to be ready when needed.

Thanks,

Christopher

Christopher Krolak wrote:

Fred,

Let me know your thoughts on if these 2 features can be implemented before week 1.  The multi-pick capability is not needed before week 1, but I would need to know that it was going to be ready when needed.

Thanks,

Christopher

I really like your feature #1 and might even use it myself in my private league, so I'm going to make an effort to support this and will let you know how its going by the end of this week. I think #2 is a little more work but I shouldn't have a problem with it since I'll have plenty of time to implement it. 

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

Fred,

Thanks for your interest, I created the 2nd place pool to try to keep people with early season losses interested in the game, vs. a traditional second place finish taking 1/3 of the pot.  The winner of the 1st place pool (last person to 1st loss) is ineligible for the 2nd place pool bounty (last person to 2 losses) because if they were it would be almost pointless.

I have yet to find a pool hosting site with this 2nd place bracket format.  Some have looked into doing it for me.

Christopher

Christopher Krolak wrote:

Fred,

Thanks for your interest, I created the 2nd place pool to try to keep people with early season losses interested in the game, vs. a traditional second place finish taking 1/3 of the pot.  The winner of the 1st place pool (last person to 1st loss) is ineligible for the 2nd place pool bounty (last person to 2 losses) because if they were it would be almost pointless.

I have yet to find a pool hosting site with this 2nd place bracket format.  Some have looked into doing it for me.

Christopher

Good point on the 1st place winner, I need to be sure the algorithm doesn't drop him into the 2nd place pool. I'm now thinking through the logistics of buybacks. I think what I'll do is allow the manager to configure a buyback option that keeps the person in the 1st place pool if they so choose to do the buyback. If they choose not to do the buyback they drop into the 2nd place pool. Of course if the manager doesn't want any buybacks then they can just leave the option disabled. I don't think it would do much good to have a buyback option apply to the 2nd place pool since there would be little incentive for someone to do a buyback when they are only chasing 2nd place money. If you or anyone else has thoughts on this let me know. 

I really love this 2nd place pool idea and short of any unforseen events I'm going to add support for this.

Fred

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

Christopher Krolak wrote:

Fred,

Thanks for your interest, I created the 2nd place pool to try to keep people with early season losses interested in the game, vs. a traditional second place finish taking 1/3 of the pot.  The winner of the 1st place pool (last person to 1st loss) is ineligible for the 2nd place pool bounty (last person to 2 losses) because if they were it would be almost pointless.

I have yet to find a pool hosting site with this 2nd place bracket format.  Some have looked into doing it for me.

Christopher

OK, I've set up an option for a 2nd place bracket! Just go to your league settings and select the option '2nd Place Bracket'. I'm also going to configure one of my leagues to use this setting so I'll be wathcing it closely to make sure everythign works correctly. The Standings page will show both the 1st and 2nd place bracket. And as I understand it, by the end of the year there should only be one person in the 1st place bracket. 

Note also your tie-breaker options. The default is if you end up with no survivors in the 1st place pool, the one with the higher Strength of Victory wins. The other option is to continue until there is a lone survivor. Once the lone survivor is reached, the remaining players are dumped to the 2nd place bracket. 

Fred 

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

Fred,

Thanks for the fast response, that's great news.  Is there anyway to simulate a game to test out this feature?

I will be running my game with the "continue to lone survivor" option.  In past years it wasn't uncommon to have everyone in the 1st bracket lose during the same week and what could happen was that the 1st place bracket would run up 2 or 3 losses before a winner was identified.  I counted all losses so that if someone got dumped out of the 1st place bracket with 2 or more losses, they were eliminated from the game, they weren't put into the 2nd place bracket.  This preserved the second place bracket as the "last person to 2 losses".  Is it possible to configure the game like this?  If this wasn't automatic, I suppose a manager option to manually disqualify them from the game would suffice.

The other option we talked about was multi-pick starting week X to accelerate the attrition.  Some games run multi-pick the entire season, I waited until I knew the game was in jeapoardy of not finishing before I enabled it, typically at about week 10 for a 100 player game.  When I had multi-pick on,  you had to get all picks correct to move on, and the picks were ordered (e.g. week 10A, week10B, etc.), the person who won 10A would win the tie breaker over the person that lost 10A but won 10B (basically it's like playing 2 weeks in 1).   I would be open to having unordered picks with multi-pick, I don't know how this would impact the game, probably would have a lot more ties.  I bring this up because we would ring up a good number of losses with multi-pick without determining a lone survivor.

Christopher Krolak wrote:

Fred,

Thanks for the fast response, that's great news.  Is there anyway to simulate a game to test out this feature?

I will be running my game with the "continue to lone survivor" option.  In past years it wasn't uncommon to have everyone in the 1st bracket lose during the same week and what could happen was that the 1st place bracket would run up 2 or 3 losses before a winner was identified.  I counted all losses so that if someone got dumped out of the 1st place bracket with 2 or more losses, they were eliminated from the game, they weren't put into the 2nd place bracket.  This preserved the second place bracket as the "last person to 2 losses".  Is it possible to configure the game like this?  If this wasn't automatic, I suppose a manager option to manually disqualify them from the game would suffice.

The other option we talked about was multi-pick starting week X to accelerate the attrition.  Some games run multi-pick the entire season, I waited until I knew the game was in jeapoardy of not finishing before I enabled it, typically at about week 10 for a 100 player game.  When I had multi-pick on,  you had to get all picks correct to move on, and the picks were ordered (e.g. week 10A, week10B, etc.), the person who won 10A would win the tie breaker over the person that lost 10A but won 10B (basically it's like playing 2 weeks in 1).   I would be open to having unordered picks with multi-pick, I don't know how this would impact the game, probably would have a lot more ties.  I bring this up because we would ring up a good number of losses with multi-pick without determining a lone survivor.

I do have a test site that I use for simulation but it doesn't always catch everything, plus I'm down to half a tester (he has less time this year to help). I agree that someone with more losses than someone in the 2nd place pool should be dropped outright so I'll be sure to include that logic. 

I do plan to add multipick but that one is a littler more work, I hope to have it ready in a week or so. Regarding the tie-breaker,  I won't have to do any change to the logic since number of wins is already a tie-breaker. 

This is great stuff,  thanks for the good ideas!

Fred

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"

Christopher Krolak wrote:

thanks for your fast response.  if you need help with testing, validation, or development let me know. 

Will do, thanks!

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers!"